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 Post subject: NAIM ?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 14:47 
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Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
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I thought audio ideas were strange in some tube equipment.

I have no connection its just for interest.

It would be interesting to hear what others find.
I do like NAIM equipment.

I remember people gluing things to circuit boards in the past and saying it seemed to make a difference.
I remember mounting things on different feet and thinking it seemed different some how.
But its all in the past :)

I would think things have moved on quite a bit from this point.
I was looking at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z5MIW-HrNc

And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO4Pf21TJGs


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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: NAIM ?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 16:46 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2018, 21:33
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Location: australia
Raise some interesting points. Particularly about decoupling, rca plugs and grounding. My old quad equipment had din plugs and I thought this was a good idea at the time without knowing why. I wonder if the claims are controversial or can be backed up objectively. He does say the final sound “quality “ is the determinant. I did have a Linn-Naim phono preamp for my turntable at one stage. I do recall I had hum problems which I managed to solve somehow. It had rca connectors. It so long ago I can’t recall which cartridge I was using. I think it was a supex mc. I also had a Shure v15 mark 111 mm I think before that.

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 Post subject: Re: NAIM ?
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2020, 08:47 
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Woodo wrote:
Raise some interesting points. Particularly about decoupling, rca plugs and grounding. My old quad equipment had din plugs and I thought this was a good idea at the time without knowing why. I wonder if the claims are controversial or can be backed up objectively. He does say the final sound “quality “ is the determinant. I did have a Linn-Naim phono preamp for my turntable at one stage. I do recall I had hum problems which I managed to solve somehow. It had rca connectors. It so long ago I can’t recall which cartridge I was using. I think it was a supex mc. I also had a Shure v15 mark 111 mm I think before that.


Hi I used a Linn Sondek LP12 with a roksan corus black and changed over to a Chiave moving magnet I preferred the sound.
I used a moth phono stage at the time. Don't have it set up at the moment.

Signal reflection is a well know phenomenon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDxSM91Jcg

It was a major problem with old telephones and distance until they started using repeater stations to drive the signal.
It was also supposedly the reason for directionality on some long distance cables.

But most people will say a cable is just a cable. :D
But as you know we are driving a load which has capacitance, resistance and inductance.
That's not taking into account load matching etc.
That why companies tried to change to fibre optic. But you don't get anything for free so they found reflections in the fibre and the research started again. :D it does remove the ground loop problem but then you have the conversion and driver circuitry which can add problems of there own. You would think that would be the end of it wouldn't you LOL
Its also the reason why you will notice cable types (sound changes) more with a passive than with a driven pre-amp.
But as with all things its frequency dependant and how much drive or mismatch there is between source and load.
So they tried using matching transformers etc

Anyway I don't want to bore you with it really.

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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: NAIM ?
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2020, 09:00 
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I should add,

The type of termination ie DIN or phono is just a trade off it should be possible to signal match in any system with any cable.
Phono is more convenient than DIN and the (constant cable upgrades would be harder to do).
You can take the engineering way that a cable is just a cable if the matching is done correctly. :D
But then you are down to triboelectric problems and micro phonics.
A well engineered system can't be beaten, but of course if that was true there would be one one manufacturer with a "perfect system".

Without all these problems we wouldn't have the HIFI industry and the black magic and "special" situations.
So it is what it is! I'll add this for fun, does the resistor type on the end of the cable have an effect?
Lets not go there...If you think about some systems where a potentiometer is connected to an output or input and then we wonder why it sounds better in a certain position. Its not really surprising just as one possible situation not taking into account all the other infinite variables.

Why should HIFI be special? The number of other electronic signal transmission systems have all the same problems.
Just for fun, what happens if you think of not just a preamp to amp situation, what about each part of a piece of equipment ie one transistor or tube/valve connecting to another through a conductor or capacitor. :D

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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: NAIM ?
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2020, 21:05 
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Joined: 04 Jun 2008, 20:59
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Location: Arizona, USA
Hi, It is called going bonkers. :D

Good listening
Bruce

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 Post subject: Re: NAIM ?
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2020, 06:45 
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gofar99 wrote:
Hi, It is called going bonkers. :D

Good listening
Bruce


LOL :D

I remember in HiFi World magazine supplement in June 94 they tried using the scope probe idea in a passive preamp.
Where the scope probe has an adjustment to tune out the effects of the scope lead on signals being measured.
It was called the J-Solat preamp. Basically it was a 100K pot in series with a 300pF cap shunted from the input end of the passive volume control to the output wiper.

It never caught on though :D
They measured the parameters of loads of after market phono interconnects even quite famous names and tested if they could make them all sound the same with the adjustment on the passive pre.

the volume pot was a log version created with a 100K lin with a 10K to ground from the wiper which basicaly grounded the output with the 10K from the wiper of the pot.
Basically this is what you are up against (for anyone interested) others will know far more its just for interest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_jxh0Qe_FY

Sorry its off topic back to NAIM equipment.

Regards
M. Gregg

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