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 Post subject: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2019, 10:34 
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Has anyone,

had any experience with HIFI conditioning?
NB these tracks are very loud so if you try anything keep the volume LOW!
If your wondering what I mean its things like Cascade sound tracks.

The idea is supposed to be run the sound track through the system and "burn in" things like capacitors etc.
Now I am very sceptical about this kind of thing and I wouldn't run it through transducers or speakers for fear of damage.
NB I have no connection to cascade etc<<
I was looking at burning in some black gates and other than just running music through the system I guess it doesn't matter what it is as long as it drives the system. :confused: :|
My thoughts are along the lines if the main amp is turned off you could drive a pre-amp close to clipping for a short time driving all components to operating potential/frequency.
Is it a pointless excercise?

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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2019, 11:28 
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Hi , IMO generally yes. Mechanical components like speakers and phono cartridges yes. It usually does no harm and I generally just use the gear as it was intended. I think it is more a matter of your ears becoming adjusted to the components than them changing much. Others disagree. Like I said it does no harm.

With old NOS electrolytics some time is required for them to reform their properties though.

Good listening
Bruce

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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2019, 16:03 
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With low to medium high quality amps theres little to zero point in anything burning in cause the changes are so small and you can't hear it
With highest end amps you can hear the burn in effect on everything then you can start thinking more more burn in

Depends on amplifier design, some amps can take large input voltage
Some cannot and you will cook it.
Clipping is safe but also depends on amp design.

To burn in black gates, what you want is to have long power on time.
Dumping mussic accros it helps, but you also need long power on time.
Also don't forgett to have a proper rated fuse so if anything gives up while your away things won't go on fire.

Don't need any speaker connections for capacior and burn in
Can also have the capacitor burnt in using a burn in rig then install the amp


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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2019, 16:46 
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OK,

I ran Cascade via iTunes to the pre-amp for two hours.
When I changed over to music is sounded terrible very loud high frequency detail almost shrill, I thought what's happened :confused:
So I just kept playing music and over about an hour it changed or so I thought.
The mid bass went deeper and the sound stage opened up then everything seemed to get a warmer sound but clear.
Strange perhaps its just me, so I will try it again and hear the difference (if any).

NB the equipment has been playing music for 7 hours continuous now and I didn't realise the time had gone.

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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2019, 11:28 
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Just looking at IsoTek,

I have no connection.

Someone also suggested rainfall as another there are plenty of examples on youtube.
However I don't know how that would cover the frequencies.

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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2019, 05:21 
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I ran CASCADE through the system again for a couple of hours.

There is a marked difference it is now warm sounding but again the high frequencies seemed louder "again".
The soundstage has opened up.
The soundstage was very strange at first power on so I googled other people experiences with Black Gate.
Someone said it sounds like the soundstage has been compressed in the middle of the speakers like a V and pushed right to the back.
This was my initial impression and its now opened right up. Very strange of course of no consequence now due to black gate being as rare as Rocking horse poo.
Its interesting for me to hear the depth of sound even to what sounds like Sub-bass not always welcome but interesting.
Now some of this is obviously the natural reforming of the caps, but its interesting none the less.

Having used Kaisei in the past and its my normal go to capacitor, I would probably use the non-polarised version.
There was a much quicker time to settle in the circuit.

I tried the IsoTek short play on youtube and after the system sounded warm, however there was not the increase in loudness that seemed to follow Cascade and the HF were not so clear (or so it seemed).NB cascade is a free download. But be very careful if you use it I wouldn't put it through headphones or speakers. But whatever floats your boat :!:

For interest the Polarised version of the Kaisei is not so warm sounding. Its not the same by any stretch of the imagination but think:
Non-Polar = warm mid tones.
Polar = brighter sound.
But both have good detail and clarity.
Just my thoughts.

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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2019, 20:50 
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Hi, My go to electrolytic is Silmic II. Pretty easy to get good values and they seem to need little burn in. Then too most of my designs don't use electrolytic couplers or even cathode bypass ones so it is not a huge concern to me.

Good listening
Bruce

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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2019, 08:52 
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gofar99 wrote:
Hi, My go to electrolytic is Silmic II. Pretty easy to get good values and they seem to need little burn in. Then too most of my designs don't use electrolytic couplers or even cathode bypass ones so it is not a huge concern to me.

Good listening
Bruce


Hi Bruce,

I used to use Silmic ll and tried lots of different Electrolytic Cerafine, Muse etc in the cathode bypass function.
However after trying the Kaisei I wouldn't go back. They are a bit stark at first sort of like a frame of the sound not harsh just like to much space everywhere in the soundstage but loads of detail. Then the sound fills in over a week quite strange also they aren't to expensive for the smaller values AKA 100uF 100V. It gets to expensive for PSU in my opinion.
I tried the polar type first and then the non-polar, they are both very good. I think many people would prefer the polar version being not so warm sounding. But its as always down to personal taste.

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M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2019, 18:52 
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Instead of having extreme expensive caps in one place, one could have all hifi caps, say remove everything and use only the hifi caps.
Not even a single cheap cap in system.
Mouser has good stock of hifi caps and shipping is free after certain ammount, that that point if its fair price.


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 Post subject: Re: HIFI conditioning?
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2019, 08:03 
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ILoveHiFi wrote:
Instead of having extreme expensive caps in one place, one could have all hifi caps, say remove everything and use only the hifi caps.
Not even a single cheap cap in system.
Mouser has good stock of hifi caps and shipping is free after certain ammount, that that point if its fair price.


Agreed,

Another way round the PSU is to use good quality Electrolytic caps at the rectifier input and do the upgrade in stages ie
Input from rectifier high ripple good quality cap, then either choke or resistor then better quality and bypass with HQ film or oil cap.
NB Interesting question: the resistor between the first cap and main cap if you use non-inductive type Vs inductive type.
The reason this is interesting is that a choke adds inductance, some argue that inductors stop the PSU powering a transient in the music.

So the argument begins none inductive parts are "better" then link this to none magnetic parts are better because polarised magnetic steel uses energy to demagnetise so high frequencies are cut in magnetic parts (this is often linked to ideas about demagnetising tape heads in cassette and reel to reel tape decks). However inductance in PSU's has always been a good way to remove RFI and noise, and so the use of HF inductors in PSU with notch filters to remove commutation noise.

NB the ideas about film cap bypass are interesting, the idea that low ESR gives fast energy release at transient, and so you can "voice" equipment to your personal taste. There is a minefield of problems with this because you tend to "voice" the system to compensate for room acoustics.
It sounds great in that room then take it somewhere else and it will "suck".<<<and so it is that bypass capacitor type has a marked effect on sound (even though it should have no effect).

The idea of synergy where mixing cap and or resistor types to give "good sound" does work, but its a real headache when you change a capacitor and instantly there is detail there that is in the music but you couldn't hear it before<<<frequency lift and cut.

Regards
M. Gregg

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