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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 19:34 
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Location: Australia
With my big 300B which just sold I bought two pairs of TJ Full Music SE tubes because I didn't want to get left with a blown tube I couldn't replace. The tubes RRP was $1200 a pair. I thought at one time to roll the big fellows but I thought why? I have very expensive good tubes what is there to gain and what do I lose.

I will be trying a few different pairs of 6L6s in an upcoming build because this is why I'm building the amp, to use some metal can old 6L6s and some JJ 6L6 which I bought years ago and have had very little use. In fact I have three very different pairs. I want to enjoy listening to the very different tubes. What other components are going into this amp, I'll have to wait for my mood to change - lol. I do have some expensive Jensen copper foil, paper and oil caps with pure silver leads. Years and years ago they were $35 each.

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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 20:56 
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Location: Vancouver Canada
Paper and oil with copper foil and silver leads for $35.00 each. Those days are gone!


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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 06:41 
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Just my thoughts,

Audio note copper sound similar to Audyn true copper.
I wouldn't advise Audio note oil caps in a first time newbie build... I,m not a great fan of them.
There are better caps or as good for less money.

Jupiter copper wax sound similar to Robert Hovland Supa-caps and they are less fragile is another example.
Not a fan of Mundorf silver in oil << :D many like them. It sounds like there is something missing in the music.

Synergy exists with standard parts :eek: (they are not all equal)

Regards
M. Gregg

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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 16:12 
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I use to like the Jupiters when they first came out. Then they got very comercial looking and not so hand made looking. I complained to the owner of the company but to no avail.

One supposedly expert cap reviewer canned them. I used them in a Fender Champ guitar amp and a OPAMP preamp. Sounded OK both times.

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Projects: "Lagoon" - tube preamp with cathode follower | "retro-Oatley 6J6" - 6J6 push-pull headphone amp with OPTs | "retro-Hiraga" - Jean Hiraga Le Monster
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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 11:10 
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mwhouston wrote:
I use to like the Jupiters when they first came out. Then they got very comercial looking and not so hand made looking. I complained to the owner of the company but to no avail.

One supposedly expert cap reviewer canned them. I used them in a Fender Champ guitar amp and a OPAMP preamp. Sounded OK both times.


Which Jupiter's did you use the Red, Yellow, or Beeswax and foil?
They changed the beeswax because if you looked at them they melted :D
Now they just melt if you use them in an amp..


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M. Gregg


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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 17:39 
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The Reds beeswax and foil. Where I used them there was very little heat.

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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 21:03 
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mwhouston wrote:
The Reds beeswax and foil. Where I used them there was very little heat.


I must ask!

Why would anyone use, under any conditions or circumstances, for any conceivable reason, a technology established in the 1930s that was *known* absolutely without a scintilla of a doubt to be a dangerous and failure prone method by the early 1940s?

Even punch-drunk boxers learn not to lean *into* the punch.


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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 22:02 
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Peter W. wrote:
mwhouston wrote:
The Reds beeswax and foil. Where I used them there was very little heat.


I must ask!

Why would anyone use, under any conditions or circumstances, for any conceivable reason, a technology established in the 1930s that was *known* absolutely without a scintilla of a doubt to be a dangerous and failure prone method by the early 1940s?

Even punch-drunk boxers learn not to lean *into* the punch.

Why with all the advancement if speaker driver design and with materials like; Bextrene, Polypropylene, beryllium,titanium and techniques like diamond dust coating and ceramic coating why would we make speakers designed in '20s. 'cause we can and we are after something specific and away from the norm. I was after a sound of yesteryear and I hope the beeswax caps would do it.

http://www.auditorium-23.de/Hommage/Cinema.html

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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 07:43 
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I was not being snarky, but this is a very real concern. My primary interaction with the electronic hobby is restoring vintage radios from the 1920s through 1960s, and I have *seen it all* when it comes to wonky capacitors, capacitors that have adopted an alternate life-style as resistors, capacitors that have become temperature-related relays, capacitors that melt, explode and any number of other behaviors that are best described as 'unhappy'.

And, when I restore vintage radios with field-coil speakers with papier-mache cones, I will replace/re-cone/rewind in kind. I could use an outboard choke and PM speaker, probably even get better sound thereby, but that is not the point.

I guess I am gun-shy having seen otherwise restorable radios with slagged power transformers or slagged rF/iF transformers due to failed wax-and-paper caps that by all appearances look fine. And having that experience multiple times, I will not invite it further, or wish it into the future. For those who are fanatical about appearances, I *will* melt the wax out of a cap and install a modern film cap inside, replacing the wax (but adding some casting wax for temperature stability). Those radios get a 3x5 card with a gutted cap attached so that a future owner knows what has been done.

When I started to include audio devices in my hobby, I used what I learned from radios to use caps to 'voice' amplifiers - those that have tone-controls in any case. Very small changes in cap values have a significant impact. And shifting from very small value electrolytics to film caps in some applications has a very pleasing effect. Electrolytics drift and/or have very wide tolerances - much as my experience with paper caps, often with tolerances of more than 20%, few less than 10%.

De gustibus non est disputandum.


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 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 08:38 
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I must admit,

The Jupiter wax capacitors have a very clear sound, however as said before the Robert Hovland supa-cap sounds similar and is more stable with heat.
I wouldn't solder them direct to a tube base perhaps to tag strip and then to the tube base.
I notice some high end equipment uses the new copper foil version.
The Jupiter's are more stable than the old paper wax caps.
I quite like the Jupiter red (Astron) similar to the old black cat caps "tin foil" and polyester so much more stable.

This is an interesting read..
Its interesting to note Audio note now use polyester in oil..(I have no connection its just for interest).
http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cap_paper.shtml

Quote:
The word "Mylar" is often used to generically refer to plastic film. However: Mylar is a registered trademark owned by Dupont Tejjin Films for a specific family of products made from the resin Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET). The true generic term for this material is polyester film.


Polyester so bad vs Mylar so good..LOL horses for courses if it sounds good use it. :D
Its interesting to note Arizona caps and whats used as the dielectric.
Red, Blue, Green Cactus and the reflections on the "real sound" links.
I still haven't tried the blue cactus but it seems to be one of the preferred types.

Its really interesting to hear the difference with Polycarbonate vs polypropylene vs polyester.

The Green and blue cactus are paper and Mylar mix in oil (like pilchards without the basil sauce :D but they are in a tin ).
Sorry couldn't help the red herring..

Regards
M. Gregg

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Last edited by M. Gregg on 29 Nov 2016, 08:52, edited 1 time in total.

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