DIY Audio Projects Forum
 NEW  Matt presents bias and operation data for the 6V6 tube in SE operation - 6V6 Single-Ended (SE) Ultra Linear (UL) Bias Optimization.

DIY Audio Projects Forum

Welcome to the DIY Audio Projects Message Forum. Use these forums to discuss Hi-Fi audio and to share your DIY Audio Projects. Registration is free and required to post messages and view the file attachments. Registration will only take a minute and registered users do not see any advertisements. After you have completed the online registration process, check your email (including spam/junk folder) for the verification email to activate your account. New members are under moderation - so your posts will not be visible until approved by a moderator. See the Read Me 1st, Forum RULES and Forum FAQ to get started on the forum.

It is currently 17 Jul 2018, 20:13

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2016, 08:36 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
Just for interest,

After looking at the latest idea of "real sound" I thought OK I'll give it a go.
So I have replaced the 0.1uF cap in the PSU on the SE with a Green cactus cap.
Just listening at the moment. :D (they aren't what I would call cheap).

Normally I'm carful with hermetic seals so a quick google gave me this:
The type of oil used is not what one would find in a automobile engine or the lawn mower sitting in the garage. Arizona Capacitors, Inc., for example, uses a mineral oil in most cases, but a silicon oil may be used as well. Both of these oils are chosen because they are non-hazardous to people and the environment, but the mineral oil is the most economical of the two.

Curiosity is a pain at times.. :D

Ref:
http://www.electrotechnik.com/blog/oil- ... apacitors/

Ref real sound:
http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=9227

Regards
M. Gregg


This post has a file attachment. Please login or register to access it. Only Registered Members may view attached files.


_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2016, 10:29 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
First impressions,

Remember this is just one capacitor in the PSU 0.1uF replacement in the EL34 se. (good there is just one ££.)
Initial first CD a real depth of sound this is quite difficult to describe, remember the old radio set sound (relaxed and valve like)
With superb detail I'm quite surprised its the exact opposite of the so called skeletal sound description of audiophiles.
I have heard this sort of thing before with oil caps in the PSU, it seems to just get better as I listen.
The first thing that hit me was I can hear the skin of a snare and brushes distinct and separate. (quite strange).
My daughter has just sat in the room and that's unusual and her foot is tapping..LMAO.

However this is early days I use my system with films and music etc. However its nice to listen to at the moment.
More to come later I'm sure the euphoria will wear off after a while. :D
I'm in the other room typing this at the moment but I just heard the echo of the inside of an acoustic guitar.
You know the sound when you tap an acoustic and the strings rattle.
Its go to be just first impressions lets see what happens over the next few days.

I bet the sound will fall apart when I put some heavy electronic bass through it..that's what normally happens with tweaks.

OK this isn't going to last I have just played Faithless and I can hear the mic-shield with a holographic image of the singer.
It was pretty good before but it sounds deeper and more cohesive.
Anyway I'm going to give it some time and listen to lots of stuff.
(Polypropylene cap replaced with an Arizona soldered with Mundorf silver/gold).

Wait for the negatives I'm sure they are lurking in the background<< :D
I have to get past the wow moments that I keep getting :confused:

Regards
M. Gregg

_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2016, 08:32 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
Well,

After a lot of listening, the Arizona caps seem to have a window of sound that is clear, however bass is not as clear as other caps.
So for me they are OK but not world beating. YMMV.

I'll give an example I tried a standard LCR audio grade and wrapped it with three turns of masking tape coated it with clear nail varnish to add some damping and the mid band seems clearer :confused: strange.

The LCR is not as clear as the Arizona cap but its midrange shows more detail. The LCR is notorious for reduced HF So I'm going to try swapping between the two and then experiment some more.

The difference between the standard LCR and the audio grade is the standard cap has good HF but everything else is masked in comparison with both the Arizona cap and the LCR audio.

The Arizona cap might break in over time but at the moment its good at mid-HF frequencies.
Remember this is in the PSU Bypass position as recommended in the article.
The LCR has a darker character than the Arizona Cap.
I will post some more when I have had a more extended listen.
Its pretty obvious to me at the moment that what seems to be the case with the Arizona cap is its possibly to open in the top end (HF).
Which also explains why in the article they had to mix and match to get the sound they wanted.


Regards
M. Gregg


This post has a file attachment. Please login or register to access it. Only Registered Members may view attached files.


_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2016, 11:23 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
OK so the Arizona goes back in,

After reading this: http://mellowgroovy.blogspot.co.uk/
I will give it a few hours and see what happens (apparently it takes a while for them to settle).
OK normally I would dismiss it but after hearing audio note caps change after an increase in voltage and staying changed I will go with it and see.
First switch on again and as before its impressive and very open with increased depth in the soundstage.
I'm not easily convinced :|

Regards
M. Gregg


This post has a file attachment. Please login or register to access it. Only Registered Members may view attached files.


_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 01:20 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
There is something about the Arizona cap that I can't live with.

Just my opinion:
So the LCR is back in again and will probably stay.
Just for interest I tried soldering the LCR in using WBT silver solder<<after an hour the WBT solder was removed with my solder sucker and re-soldered with Mundorf Silver/Gold. Why? because I lost the depth in the sound. (YMMV).
So the Arizona cap goes in the spares box. Would I buy Arizona caps again? probably not.
As the article suggests some people like them. YMMV.

Another case of when you hope it will work out but not this time.
Thinking about this some more, the reason this isn't working is the mix of parts I have used. It makes sense that in the article they are using wire that has a "mellow tone" and old oil caps in the PSU ect they don't use Tantalum resistors and favour AB carbon all these things "shape" the sound so unless I'm willing to rip out and start again (which I'm not). I tried some old paper caps new NOS in an amp for fun many years ago and the difference in sound is a surprise not what you would expect at all. However that's another story :D

Regards
M. Gregg

_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 14:55 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
The Arizona cap is in again.. :D
I like the ambient information.
LOL its got to be just the mix (how much do I need to change)
(I'm using Audio note solder this time.)

I'm just trying a few things, resistors in the PSU changed to carbon.
letting it run for a while, and trying a few things.
Its all a bit weird I know, however I would like to get this to work just for interest.

Regards
M. Gregg

_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2016, 11:15 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
I grasped the nettle, :D

I am slowly replacing the resistors with carbon composite in strategic places.(ends sealed with epoxy).

So I thought I use carbon pots on some gear and they sound OK so what happens if I put a CC on the input grid (Grid stopper).
NB (Not to ground).

What's the difference between a carbon track and a resistor?

After fitting the first two..
The initial sound was lacking in HF and then after about 10 minutes it opened up sound difference slight removal of the edge on the HF (which could be the MF glare) seems to create a more relaxing sound. Detail at the moment seems about the same as before, but its early days the Arizona cap is still in circuit.

I have some Allen Bradley on order for the power tubes grid stopper and Grid ground.
PSU will be Takman REX 1watt.
I bet it will sound pants<<but that's not what I'm hearing at the moment.
Level of audible hiss (not audible) at the moment.

If I don't try it I won't know will I.. :)

NB I wouldn't contemplate this on preamps..LMAO but in a power section I'll give it a go!
Any values not available In Allen Bradley I'm using Arcol<<I'm going to wait until I have done everything and then comment.
Well maybe.. :D its quite fun really ripping out tantalum resistors and putting in horrible tacky carbon composite not even carbon film. LMAO.
It goes against the grain but I'm going to try it. One of the reasons is its removing the inductance from the signal path (well some of it).

Regards
M. Gregg


This post has a file attachment. Please login or register to access it. Only Registered Members may view attached files.


_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 07:05 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
Ok the process continues, :D

This is how I'm trying to seal the resistors,

I connect a meter across the resistor reading ohms,
Then put a hair dryer on full heat with a concentrator nozzle about 4 inches from the resistor making a circular motion to try and get even heat distribution on the resistor.

I watch the resistance climb up to a max value then the resistance will sometimes drop again over about a minute.
To me that's the max tolerance of the resistor (in reasonable use).
I let it cool and seal the ends with epoxy.

I'm not a fan of this roasting the resistor in an oven because carbon is a natural substance and whenever you dry out a natural substance it cracks. Just my theory so some moisture in it is OK as far as I'm concerned. (time will tell).

Shellac does absorb moisture I guess its natural but it also contains a degreaser alcohol.<<just my thoughts.
Anyway I now have the AB resistors sealed with epoxy and drying..LOL

More from Bob's side show later.. :D LMAO

Regards
M. Gregg

_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 10:58 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
OK rex and AB resistors in place,

Soldered with Audio note solder.
I'm quite surprised at the moment, Its still early days lots of listening to do!
I'm going to keep pressing on with the "real sound" modifications.
I found more here just for interest:
http://positive-feedback.com/audio-disc ... -yazaki-2/

What real sound seems to be is a modern version of old equipment that had the ability to kid you that there was someone in the room.
Well I have more to do if I'm going down that route but its really interesting at the moment. :D I still have the tantalum resistors in the anodes and input grid ground at the moment.

:eek: Pink resistors..LOL The only comment I can make at the moment is there is lots of depth to the sound, you know when audiophiles strip the sound bare and then try to use triode to fill in the missing warmth. Well this is a very interesting experience its sounds more like triode now than before<<but its not wired in triode. Relaxed easy listening maybe or perhaps analogue sound with a digital signal.
Just listening to Fleetwood mac at the moment..lots more to do!

Regards
M. Gregg


This post has a file attachment. Please login or register to access it. Only Registered Members may view attached files.


_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arizona Capacitors
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2016, 04:16 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 09:05
Posts: 627
After studying a bit more about real sound,

I am listening to the Mar-keys for a laugh at the minute and I think I'm getting an understanding of this comment from the recent post:

Quote:
Recent Trend of 'High-End Audio'

To tell the truth, I have a crucial question for the trend of 'High-End Audio' to pursue audio quality based on the combination of a low-efficiency speakers and a high-power semiconductor amplifiers, which emphasizes a sound that expands on or behind the plane of speakers by emphasizing the feeling of elaborateness, wide range, and positioning, but with a rather thin tonal quality. Even if such a sound presents a high degree of 'perfection' from the viewpoint of audio measurements, does it really bring us the joy and excitement of music?

Now if you agree or not its an interesting point.. :D
The instant honk of brass which now seems to have depth which is very interesting. Reminiscent of old valve equipment which I do actually like to hear.

Quote:
Meantime, my eyes were opened to the music world of jazz by the influence of a friend. I remember well that John Coltrane passed away at that time. There were so many jazz cafés in Tokyo. At the jazz cafés analog LPs were playing endlessly, and the guests listened to jazz records for hours upon hours, with only a cup of coffee in the dim illumination, and each café developed their sound systems to compete with other cafés' audio systems.

I've just realised I am only scratching the surface at the moment, but I'm going to try and understand more about what's going on..
It reminds me of a scene in the film Oblivion when Harper listens to a 1970's record player and relaxes by the pond.. :D

Regards
M. Gregg

_________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
DIY Tube Projects :: DIY Tube Amp Kits :: DIY Speaker Projects :: DIY Solid State Projects :: DIY IC / Op-amp Projects :: DIY Phono Projects :: DIY Cable Projects :: Hi-Fi Audio Schematics
© diyAudioProjects.com - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy