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 Post subject: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2011, 14:55 
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Joined: 15 Oct 2010, 17:50
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A correction:
The Mogami cable part#'s I've mentioned use Cross-linked Polyethylene (XLPE) dielectric, not Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE aka Teflon(R)).

PTFE was patented in 1941 and Teflon(R) was registered in 1945.

Naturally, patents expire (the time varies depending on the country they're granted within, but broadly speaking 35 years is about all you can hope for, after taking advantage of a 1-time renewal) but trademarks generally do not (they can become "abandoned" and if you don't enforce your trademarks, they can be declared invalid). Note also that in some countries, the use of (c) or (r) is not a legal mark and does not protect the owner; you're supposed to use © and ®.


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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2011, 21:43 
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Joined: 08 Aug 2009, 03:11
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Location: Chilliwack, BC
DuPont is vicious in its defence of the "Teflon" brand name and WILL sue even hobby Ebayers if they ignore the C&D letters, just FYI :hot:

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2011, 12:58 
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Geek wrote:
DuPont is vicious in its defence of the "Teflon" brand name and WILL sue even hobby Ebayers if they ignore the C&D letters, just FYI

Well, clearly they do. Under trademark law, if you don't, you lose the trademark.

Of course, it's trivially easy to protect yourself from DuPont's attention and lawyers, even if you're a "hobby Ebayer". Just always capitalize the name, and follow it by the registration mark.

You can do that all day, every day, anywhere in print, commercial or conversational, and they'll leave you alone; you're following the law.

The requirement to defend your trademarks are such that if you were to eMail DuPont and cite an eBay auction or blog post, for example, where the trademark is improperly used, they are then required by law to follow up; first with the C&D letter and later, if the infringing use persists, to sue the infringer.

If they fail to, they run the risk of having the trademark declared invalid.

So, it's not like DuPont (or anyone else with registered trademarks) are deliberately hiring vicious sharks bent on destroying everyone's fun. They have no choice; trademarks are not automatically your property forever. You have to defend them (and you have to actually use them; you can't register a trademark and park it, or use it for a while then retire it ... you will lose the right to the mark).


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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2011, 20:29 
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I will disagree with you here.

Quote:
Just always capitalize the name, and follow it by the registration mark.


One online company did this. DuPont's lawyers told him to cough up a royalty for the use of the name "Teflon", (R) mark notwithstanding (I saw the paper myself).

His lawyer said it was defensible, but to be prepared to shell out six digits to do it.

The guy is a small "corner store" type electronics dealer and not an asshat by any means. He bends over backwards to help people.

Cheers!

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-= Gregg =-
* Ratings are for transistors - tubes have guidelines*
Home: GeeK ZonE
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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2012, 05:07 
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Joined: 15 Oct 2010, 17:50
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A royalty? You don't pay a royalty to properly use a trade name. Is there something else about his use of the word "Teflon" you should be telling us?

To use the name Teflon it has to be made from PTFE sourced from DuPont. There are many sources of PTFE other than DuPont, and if you use one of those other sources, you cannot call it Teflon.

That would generate legal action, but wouldn't be from use of the trade name, it would be from misuse of the trade name (passing something off as genuine DuPont Teflon when it was PTFE sourced elsewhere).

Teflon is PTFE but PTFE is not necessarily Teflon.


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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2012, 08:46 
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I thought it was rediculous too.

Johnny2Bad wrote:
Is there something else about his use of the word "Teflon" you should be telling us?


Well, he sold surplus wire that was PTFE coated and he called it Teflon insulated.

Entirely possible there was some deep seated leagalese that wasn't spelled out in the C&D that would have been in the disclosure documents had he pursued it :confused:

I myself don't use the term unless it is a genuine DuPont product, like found insulating Belden or Alpha cable...

Cheers!

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-= Gregg =-
* Ratings are for transistors - tubes have guidelines*
Home: GeeK ZonE
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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2012, 13:17 
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Joined: 28 May 2008, 21:53
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Location: Winnipeg, CANADA
Hi,

I splilt the PTFE and Teflon (R) discussion from the Interconnects made of instrument cable - good or not? thread.

Teflon is a brand name owned by DuPont for PTFE.

wikipedia wrote:
Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) is a synthetic fluoropolymer of tetrafluoroethylene that finds numerous applications. The most well known brand name of PTFE is Teflon by DuPont Co.


A good analogy is Kleenex. Keelex is the brand name owned by Kimberly-Clark for facial tissues. Remember that next time someone asks you for a Kleenex. ;)

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2012, 22:45 
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Joined: 08 Aug 2009, 03:11
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Location: Chilliwack, BC
Another is Xerox.

Some languages have adopted "Xerox" as their word for "photocopy".

But "he who has the gold..." has tried some real hairbrained schemes.... Remember Gio when VANOC tried to get the Washington Govenor to hold a referendum to rename the Olympic Peninsula and Olympic Mountain Range because it "infringed" on their rights?

Cheers!

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-= Gregg =-
* Ratings are for transistors - tubes have guidelines*
Home: GeeK ZonE
Work: Classic Valve Design


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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 13:20 
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Joined: 28 May 2008, 21:53
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Yeah, and I am sure more of this is coming. I can read the headlines already: "Infant taken to court as given name infringes on brand name trademark".

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: PTFE and Teflon (R)
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2012, 13:10 
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Names have legal protection that is distinct from other clauses in copyright, trademark and patent law. Again, since all Intellectual Property Law (IP Law) is national, not international, and varies from nation to nation, generalizations are about as precise as you can get. However, by way of example, you cannot copyright a title anywhere in the world; you can only copyright the contents of, say, a book with a certain title.

You can write a song called "Billie Jean" and SONY (owner of Michael Jackson's music publishing rights) cannot stop you, even though they own the rights to the music and lyrics of a song of the same name. They don't own the name, just the phrases that make up the lyrics alone.

There is real danger to companies who do not protect their trademarks.

Currently, for example, WHAM-O is being sued by another firm who are arguing that "Frisbee", "Hula Hoop" and "Slip 'n' Slide" ... all trademarks of WHAM-O ... have entered common usage of the language to describe all similar devices whether or not they are officially made by the trademark owner (the legal term is "have become generic in the public lexicon"), and if they can prove that, the trademarks will be ruled invalid.


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