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Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables
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Author:  mwhouston [ 23 Dec 2010, 15:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

What you can do, with care, is spray your highly polished bare silver wire with a thin layer of poly-urathane (bad spell).

Author:  cheap-Jack [ 04 Jan 2011, 11:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

Gio wrote:
the best sounding insulation is none at all

Hi.

Once we know about the basics of wave propagation along a conductor, any "cookbooks" can be put aside.

Yes, the best media for wave propagation is vacuum (propagation velocity v.c.=1), then free air (v.c.=1.06), followed by foamed Polyethylene (v.c.=1.54), then Teflon TFE & FEP (v.c.=1.45).

So no insulation, ie. bare wire, is the best insulation (next to vacuum) available for we DIYers.

The issue is how to prevent shorting.

As already said repeatedly above, I strip off the insulation skin of the #30 silver plated oxygen-free copper wire. To prevent shorting, I insert the bare wire in loose Teflon tubing.

Why LOOSE tubing? Why Teflon?

So a little thinking should tell you why I do so for all the 4N AG interconnecs for built.

c-J

PS: I never need tp read any "cookbooks" once I know the physics of wires.

Author:  mwhouston [ 04 Jan 2011, 17:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

I thought a had a good working knowledge of wiring, cables, propagation etc. but after reading the Supercables Cook Book I have changed a lot of ideas. The book concepts area is excellent and most of what is written makes sense.

You can never know too much. I actively use wirewrap wire I/Cs in my two systems now.

Author:  Gio [ 04 Jan 2011, 21:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

cheap-Jack wrote:
As already said repeatedly above, I strip off the insulation skin of the #30 silver plated oxygen-free copper wire. To prevent shorting, I insert the bare wire in loose Teflon tubing.

Teflon tubing seems to be the common high-end approach with pure silver wire. That also makes sense since I don't imagine getting pure silver wire with teflon insulation is readily available.

But what about oxidation of the silver in the loose tubing?

My 2 cents. Use the teflon tubing with pure silver wire. However, where one is using low cost silver plated copper I would stick with teflon insulation. :2c:

Cheers

Author:  mwhouston [ 04 Jan 2011, 23:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

The contact between silver and copper [on the wire] cannot oxidise without the silver being completely eaten away. I believe that "bond" is what makes this type of wire sound good and be so appealing.

Author:  Geek [ 04 Jan 2011, 23:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

Allen Wright has a publication on this... whish I could remember the title :confused:

IIRC, he used a single strand of #30 magnet wire in a shoelace.

Oh, and congrats to Gio for having a forum and membership that can start a cable thread and not be in suicide-bombing-jihad by the second page! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Cheers!

Author:  mwhouston [ 05 Jan 2011, 00:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

I have one of Allen's Books, third edition. Don't remember reading about that cable. As I said if you read his concepts section you come out with fresh ideas and greater understanding of cables.

No I think it will take at least to the third pages before the roth of the wire gods descend.

Author:  cheap-Jack [ 05 Jan 2011, 13:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

Gio wrote:
Teflon tubing seems to be the common high-end approach with pure silver wire.

Hi.

Per above progation velocity order chart, Teflon is forth best insulation material, next to foamed PE which is commonly used as the dielectric insulation for all coaxial cables. Unlike foamed PE which must be factory extruded to form a constant thick dielectric required for any coaxial cable centre conductor, Teflon is a thin & solid material, which can be handled easily by us DIYers.
That's why Teflon is a pretty common hi ranking insulation material for electronic uses, e.g. exotic caps.

Silver, like Teflon, is an expensive metal which should go together with a high performance insulation material, e.g. Teflon, to get the best result. Of course.Teflon can also be used to insulate copper too.

I always use Teflon tubing, simply for its high propagation velocity (v.c.), fast signal transit time (=1.45mS/1,000ft vs 1.06mS/mft of free air) & low low dielectric constant (2.00). This is strictly a scientic choice.

Gio wrote:
what about oxidation of the silver in the loose tubing?

In fact Allan Wright asked me similar question years back as he told me his silver grounding foils tarnished so quickly.

I've chosen loose Teflon tubing because of the air trapped inside the tube. The air foams the 2nd best (next to vacuum) primary dielectric for the silver wire as the wire is now 99% surrounded by the air trapped inside the tubing. The 1% is the tiny point contact between the silver wire & the Teflon tubing inside wall.

Now the conductor inside the flexible tubing is 99% insulated by air which unlike Teflon tubing which cost us money. Air is free to us !!

The very small quantity of air trapped inside the tubing would not tarnish any silver as silver is only attacked by the sulphur oxide gases found in polluted industrial airs which tarnish the silver.

The bare silver wires used in my interconnects & even power cords do not tarnish at all.

The trick is how to make sure the cable is AIR-tight so that the little trapped inside the loose tubing is kept in & out of the outside polluted air. Once air-tightening is done properly when the cable is built, it should be OK for good unless the end termination of the cable is broken.

So my ideal cables are built with fine metal (Ag) & very best insulation dielectrics (air & Teflon).

c-J

PS: only copper is oxidized by air. So air-tightening for copper cables should be done very carefully.

Author:  Gio [ 05 Jan 2011, 19:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

Great info here guys! Keep it coming! :geek:
cheap-Jack wrote:
The very small quantity of air trapped inside the tubing would not tarnish any silver as silver is only attacked by the sulphur oxide gases found in polluted industrial airs which tarnish the silver.

PS: only copper is oxidized by air. So air-tightening for copper cables should be done very carefully.

Everything silver and silver plated I have ever owned has always tarnished.

I'd love to hear what the best way to seal off the teflon tubing is.
Cheers

Author:  dtsup1 [ 06 Jan 2011, 03:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Skinny is in! - Thin wire audio cables

A blob of glue from a glue gun ?

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